Rudy Giuliani says Trump-Cohen recording is 'open to interpretation'

published 25 July 2018

After the release of a secret 2016 audio recording of President Trump and Michael Cohen Tuesday night, Rudy Giuliani tried to do damage control, saying the tape is "hard to hear" and "open to interpretation."

The conversation between Trump and Cohen was about Cohen buying the rights to a story sold to American Media Inc., publisher of the National Enquirer, by Karen McDougal, a former Playboy model who said she had an affair with Trump that ended in 2007. AMI paid McDougal $150,000 for her story, which never ran. Cohen is heard saying he needs to "open up a company for that transfer of all that info regarding our friend David," likely referring to David Pecker, AMI's CEO.

After Cohen says on the tape, "We'll have to pay," Trump responds, "Pay with cash," but Giuliani told Fox News host Laura Ingraham the tape is "hard to hear," and "there is no way the president is going to be talking about setting up a corporation then using cash, unless you're a complete idiot, and again, the president is not an idiot." The main issue, he said, is that "it's outrageous that someone would tape his client surreptitiously." The White House has since released its own transcript of the tape, and claims Trump says, "Don't pay with cash."

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Giuliani also spoke to The Washington Post, and said the tape does not show Trump knew about the McDougal deal. "That's open to interpretation and we can have a fight about that," he said. "To me, it sounds like Cohen is explaining something to [Trump] that he doesn't understand. He doesn't seem that familiar with anything. There is nothing to indicate that he knew anything in advance." The Wall Street Journal reported right before the election about the payment to McDougal, and when reached for comment at the time, Trump's campaign spokeswoman, Hope Hicks, said, "We have no knowledge of any of this." Catherine Garcia

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Catherine Garcia has worked as a senior writer at The Week since 2014. Her writing and reporting have appeared in Entertainment Weekly, The New York Times, Wirecutter, NBC News and "The Book of Jezebel," among others. She's a graduate of the University of Redlands and the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism.