Rachel Maddow and Lev Parnas explain why Parnas has publicly flipped on Trump and Giuliani


After MSNBC's Rachel Maddow aired her interview with Lev Parnas on Wednesday night, fellow host Lawrence O'Donnell told her it was an "extraordinary hour" of television. But "I think a lot of us, as we were watching, had one fundamental question: Why is he doing this?" he asked. "Why has he decided to basically turn on his friends in the conspiracy and talk about the conspiracy?" Parnas worked with Rudy Giuliani, President Trump's personal lawyer, to pressure Ukrainian officials to procure dirt on Joe Biden.
"What seemed to emerge today," Maddow said, "is that he really believes that the more he makes public about what he saw and what he knows and what he can document, the safer he is. He's, I think, worried that if the information he's got is only inside his own head or in his own, you know, electronic devices and things like that, that that's too easy — it's too easy to make that go away."
Maddow said there's probably an "implicit" but far-fetched hope that cooperating with investigators and sharing what he knows will help him in his federal criminal case, but "I will tell you, Lawrence, I was convinced until the moment I was sitting there talking to him that it was going to be canceled." She added that for her, the "headline" from the interview was his claim about Vice President Mike Pence's involvement in the Ukraine meddling.
Subscribe to The Week
Escape your echo chamber. Get the facts behind the news, plus analysis from multiple perspectives.

Sign up for The Week's Free Newsletters
From our morning news briefing to a weekly Good News Newsletter, get the best of The Week delivered directly to your inbox.
From our morning news briefing to a weekly Good News Newsletter, get the best of The Week delivered directly to your inbox.
Parnas also told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Wednesday that "of course" Pence was aware of what he and Giuliani were doing for Trump in Ukraine, and their mission "was all about 2020, to make sure he had another four years." Cooper asked if that's how Parnas "personally" saw the goal, and Parnas said "that was the way everybody viewed it. ... I mean, there was no other reason for doing it."
Parnas told Cooper he "loved" and "idolized" Trump up to the moment Trump publicly denied knowing him. "The truth is out now, thank God," he said. "I thought they were going to shut me up and make me look like the scapegoat and try to blame me for stuff I haven't done." Parnas volunteered to testify at Trump's impeachment trial and predicted that between him and former National Security Adviser John Bolton, they "could fill in all the dots."
Senate Republicans aren't expected to allow witnesses at Trump's trial.
A free daily email with the biggest news stories of the day – and the best features from TheWeek.com
Peter has worked as a news and culture writer and editor at The Week since the site's launch in 2008. He covers politics, world affairs, religion and cultural currents. His journalism career began as a copy editor at a financial newswire and has included editorial positions at The New York Times Magazine, Facts on File, and Oregon State University.
-
Crossword: June 23, 2025
The Week's daily crossword
-
How far would Russia go for Iran?
Today's Big Question US air strikes represent an 'embarrassment, provocation and opportunity' all rolled into one for Vladimir Putin
-
Anshu Ahuja's golden coconut and butter bean curry recipe
The Week Recommends Plump, creamy beans in a sweet, spicy sauce
-
Trump's LA deployment in limbo after court rulings
Speed Read Judge Breyer ruled that Trump's National Guard deployment to Los Angeles was an 'illegal' overreach. But a federal appellate court halted the ruling.
-
Marines, National Guard in LA can detain Americans
speed read The troops have been authorized to detain anyone who interferes with immigration raids
-
Trump vows 'very big force' against parade protesters
Speed Read The parade, which will shut down much of the capital, will celebrate the US Army's 250th anniversary and Trump's 79th birthday
-
Smithsonian asserts its autonomy from Trump
speed read The DC institution defied Trump's firing of National Portrait Gallery Director Kim Sajet
-
Trump sends Marines to LA, backs Newsom arrest
speed read California Gov. Gavin Newsom is filing lawsuits in response to Trump's escalation of the federal response to ICE protests
-
Trump foists National Guard on unwilling California
speed read Protests erupted over ICE immigration raids in LA county
-
Supreme Court lowers bar in discrimination cases
speed read The court ruled in favor of a white woman who claimed she lost two deserved promotions to gay employees
-
Trump-Musk relationship implodes in taunts, threats
speed read Musk said Trump's multitrillion bill would cause a recession and accused the president of involvement with Jeffrey Epstein