Oprah Winfrey, Ava DuVernay explain the difference between 'inclusion' and 'diversity'

(Image credit: Alberto E. Rodriguez/Getty Images for AFI)

published 17 August 2016

The discussion about the alarming lack of diversity in the arts, and film in particular, has been simmering for decades, ranging most recently from the #OscarsSoWhite hashtag to the outrage over actors like Matt Damon, Scarlett Johansson, and Emma Stone "whitewashing" roles that would seemingly otherwise go to people of color. But director Ava DuVernay, who made the Academy Award- and Golden Globe-nominated Selma, believes "diversity" is the wrong word to be using in these discussions. She broke it down for The Hollywood Reporter in an interview with Oprah Winfrey, who is producing DuVernay's new show, Queen Sugar:

Ava, you've expressed strong distaste for the term "diversity," but Oprah has made use of it. How do you both characterize the concept now in terms of the overall conversation in the industry?DUVERNAY We aren't sitting around talking about diversity, just like we aren't sitting around talking about being black or being women. We're just being that.WINFREY I will say that I stand corrected. I used to use the word "diversity" all the time. "We want more diverse stories, more diverse characters…" Now I really eliminated it from my vocabulary because I've learned from her that the word that most articulates what we're looking for is what we want to be: included. It's to have a seat at the table where the decisions are being made.DUVERNAY That was your take on it.WINFREY When Sidney Poitier came to my school [in South Africa], he gave a gift of 550 movies to the girls. He thought if you watch these 550 movies, they'll be your education for life. He wrote to the girls that his dream for them was to be able to sit at the table of the future where the world's decisions would be made. I realize now that what he was saying is to be included, to be valued as a person who has something to contribute. [The Hollywood Reporter]

DuVernay means what she says: Queen Sugar has an all-female crew working behind the camera, and a largely black cast of newcomers in front of it. Read more about the project, as well as DuVernay's thoughts on the responsibilities of being a black filmmaker, in her interview with Winfrey at The Hollywood Reporter.

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Jeva Lange was the executive editor at TheWeek.com. She formerly served as The Week's deputy editor and culture critic. She is also a contributor to Screen Slate, and her writing has appeared in The New York Daily News, The Awl, Vice, and Gothamist, among other publications. Jeva lives in New York City. Follow her on Twitter.